Please note that due to the unedited nature of this post, the language deems it necessary for us to give this post an “R” rating. If you are sensitive to 4-letter words, do not proceed. This is part 2 of a “real conversation between a christian and an atheist.” For part 1, click here.
beginning of “part 2.”
Joey Svendsen: Ok. Let’s say God did exactly that AND said the bible is true, follow me. Would you? Will catch you tomorrow or the next. Good-night, bitch. (For the general reader, don’t worry, this is what a dude calls another dude when he’s becoming fond of him in a dude way).
UNlearning Reader: haha good call goodnight! btw I would (it’d suck though)
UNlearning Reader: Hey Joey, I was wondering about your point of view on my argument?
Joey Svendsen: thanks for your patience. all right. so, to dispel any notion to the contrary, i AM trying to make a point. we can continue talking about this but my point is this… the conclusion that you need to come to is this….IS THERE A GOD? period. instead you are saying one of two things perhaps (and i could be putting words in your mouth. if so, sorry)
1. “If there IS a God, He is not good at it, fair, nor loving” or . . . .
2. “The God of the bible can’t exist, because He is not good at it, fair, nor loving.”
These are the wrong questions, ESPECIALLY considering the fact that if there IS a God, it would make complete sense that everything would not make complete sense. If He is God, that would mean that we are His creation for crying out loud! If we totally figured Him out, He’d be a pretty lame God. Scientifically, i can’t see how there is no God. We either have an eternal universe, a universe that came out of nothing, an eternal God, or a God that came from no where. i’m going with an eternal God. things don’t come from nothing and if something or some one always existed, I’m thinking there’s some intelligent life out there that far surpasses our concept of reality. secondly, for me personally, i’ve done a hell of a lot of research, lots of studying, longs seasons of skepticism and i have come to the conclusion that people who discount Jesus as Lord do not have a good leg to stand on. He was a historical figure (there’s even historical accounts outside the bible), He did miracles, claimed to be God and rose from the dead. I mean, come on dude. Did you know the same people that crucified him were the same ones that didn’t want him to be who he said he was? AND they had a LOT of power. If he didn’t rise, they would have made dang well sure that people knew, but they couldn’t….next thing you know, ppl are dying for this faith, and here we are 2K years later and it’s still spreading. sure, there are other faiths, but most of them borrow from sects of Christianity and let’s just face it, Jesus is either right (He’s the ONLY way) or He is wrong. Christians can’t be correct….and other faiths too. if we are correct, the rest are wrong. . . that’s probably why untold amounts of former Muslims, Jews, and Hindu’s are coming to Christ for salvation. you see, i believe in a very loving God that is reaching out to lost folks. If the concept of GOD exists, he has access to everyone in the world and i don’t underestimate what he can be doing in people’s hearts. bottom line is this: i don’t LIKE everything in the Bible. I wish things were different, but i also realize that many things i see are very short-sided and i serve a perfectly loving and just God, so i trust Him, realizing what the bible says is true. His thoughts and ways are higher than mine. watch this video if you have time. this is a really good dude. Erasing Hell by Francis Chan
Joey Svendsen: let me clarify. i wish SOME things weren’t as they are
UNlearning Reader: Hey Joey, thanks for the reply. I did watch the video by the way. Honestly, I found it completely absurd. What he is trying to do is exactly what the title implies: erase hell from one’s mind by coming up with a sick justification to why billions of people are suffering eternal torment. “Did that innocent child really deserve to burn in hell forever? I don’t think so but I’ll assume that God probably knows something that I don’t. His sense of justice is more developed than mine. And his love and his mercy are perfect and I am the one flawed.” If that doesn’t spell out brain wash to you then I don’t know what will. You say you serve a perfectly loving and just God. Taking the above thoughts into consideration, what makes him loving? The first statement you suggested in your reply is correct. However, it is not a reason for not believing in your god. It is an idea that contradicts what the Bible claims your god to be and gets people thinking. The reason why I have focused on that area is because Christians ignore the lack of evidence supporting the story of Jesus Christ. Your way of providing evidence is the fact that there are a huge amount of followers of Christianity. There have been many myths with followers, including Attis of Phrygia (which was created over 1000 years before Christ and was born from a virgin in the winter, was a savior of man, body as bread, crucified and was resurrected) and you haven’t addressed that btw. It is extraordinary that many religions are still alive. Does that make their beliefs correct? Of course not. There are so many things that are questionable in which no religion can answer. Which is why I would never choose to believe in it. I would need absolute certainty. Which is what you can’t provide. Instead, holes in the logic of the bible are sown back together with faith. But why do people choose to use faith instead of reason? It stems down to these reasons (correct me if I’m wrong):
1.The desire to go to heaven
2.The fear of burning in hell
3. The fear of friends and family being wrong
4. The fear of not having one to guide you through life . If these reasons for believing were not taken into account, chances are that you would have seen Christianity die a long time ago. I hope you can address what I’ve said (I know it’s a lot and I’ve tried to deliver only my main points) And also, I would be thrilled if you took the time to watch this one video and tell me your thoughts. Matt was a Christian for 25 years. The Atheist Experience 696 Thanks for your time!
Stay tuned Friday when we’ll post more of this conversation, including Joey’s take on the video, Atheist Experience 696.
What do you think?
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