Please note that due to the unedited nature of this post, the language deems it necessary for us to give this post an “R” rating. If you are sensitive to 4-letter words, do not proceed. This is part 3 of a “real conversation between a christian and an atheist.” For part 1 click here. For part 2, click here.
beginning of “part 3.”
Joey Svendsen: i’ll watch the video but can’t right now. a couple of things.
-an innocent child burning in hell forever? Where did you get that?
-My thoughts on reasoning: if there is a God, he created reasoning and you are using it to disprove the possibility of Him, and claiming that because there’s holes in a belief in Him, you won’t believe in Him. i can’t think of anything stranger.
-my way of proving Christianity is not totally based on the “people that are following.” there’s many more reasons.
-Attis of Phrygia? How many of heard about that one? not many, because it’s myth! you may also want to do some more research on that one. conceived by an almond? from a hemaphrodite God? to put the gospels in any similar category is crazy.
-Ok, let’s talk about the New Testament. As far as ancient manuscripts, the New Testament has MANY more original writings left than any other, and these originals were written WAY closer to the actual events of any other manuscripts to their actual events. no matter what you believe, the New Testament is in its own category as far as evidence for authenticity. i’ll be the first one to admit that i can’t provide absolute certainty. i do a LOT of things in daily living, however, without having absolute certainty as well. for example, i put my family at risk by getting them in a plane, not having certainty that it will go down. however, because of statistics, i know the chances are quite slim that we crash. i also know the chances are quite slim that what I believe about Jesus is untrue. and, by the way, you can’t tell me with absolute certainty that i’m wrong, so i guess we are both in the same boat. i think YOU may have more faith though. because if you don’t believe in a God, i’m not sure how you can even identify what evil is or even come close to figuring how in the world we all got here.
Joey Svendsen: ok. i am going ahead and watching the video. i’ll take notes as i listen:
1. i agree with his first statement about ignoring scientific evidence and blindly supporting the bible. that’s irresponsible when Christians do it. When science and bible conflict, it’s often due to a Christian’s misinterpretation of the bible. Many times, however, scientists are wrong. Correct interpretation of the Bible, in my opinion, is never wrong. With this being said, the Old Universe/ New Universe debate poses no threat to my faith. there are many bible-believing Christians that believe the bible supports a new universe while many of the same support old universe. i actually lean more towards old universe.
2. His point on questioning whether Jesus’ miracles actually happened and if so, why the small scope of audience? my response: do you know how remote the life of Jesus was? The vast majority of humanity living at the time were not even aware of the death and resurrection of Jesus.
3. His point on God/Jesus’ evidence being limited to text in the bible: God reveals Himself through many other routes if people are willing to look. . . such as creation.
4. His point on Christians ignoring evidence/logic in favor of blind faith: the bible speaks a great deal about faith AND knowledge. This guy is misguided. our faith is based on a LOT of evidence and the bible supports this approach. 2 Peter 3:18 is just one of many. at some point, Christians DO need faith, because in the supernatural realm, some things can’t be fully understood on this side of heaven. This is common ground that Christians share with atheists who also need faith, considering they have no assurance that God doesn’t exist, nor can they come even close to proving his nonexistence. i like this guy, by the way.
5. the Christian guy on the phone is stupid. sorry. Lord, please forgive me.
6. Huh? I don’t feel compelled whatsoever to think horrific things about this guy or about his fellow-atheist team, nor do I feel a need to draw a line between us on account of my faith. Many Christians do, however. I’ll give you that. but remember, not all who say they are Christians are in fact Christians. EVERY TIME a Christian approaches another human being in an unloving, mean-spirited way, He is ALWAYS either not a true Christian or He’s a Christian that isn’t behaving too well (that’s me often times).
7. how can this guy talk about morality? there’s no such thing in a world of atheism.
8. True Christianity is NOT hateful. just like not all true atheists hate Christians (like this guy, for example), but some do. i haven’t ended my relationship with you, have I? This guy is using a handful of bad misrepresentations to put a sour taste in every one’s mouth about Christianity. (for those of you reading, click this link right here for a former post on using a few bad examples to paint a particular whole group with the same brush) i reckon we as Christians had this coming to us, though, because of the bad examples we’ve produced. sorry about that.
UNlearning Reader: “reasoning: if there is a God, he created reasoning and you are using it to disprove the possibility of Him, and saying that because there’s holes, you won’t believe. i can’t think of anything stranger.” If you actually take this as a valid point then there is no point in me arguing using reason is there?
Joey Svendsen: my point is this, friend. the question STARTS with . . . . . is there a God? Yes or No. sure, you need reasoning in order to evaluate this question, i agree. What I am saying is this….. how ironic, if there is a God….that you are using the gift of logic (that he gave you) to say that he doesn’t exist.
UNlearning Reader: then I’m fucked! lol you could say the exact same thing about any god though and then it begins again! so in a nutshell it’s all a big game for him HEEEH Let’s see who believes in me and see if anyone tries to use logic but that won’t help them with shit because I created it!! LOOOL I LUV U GUYS
UNlearning Reader: I agree with what Matt (from video) said: When we use logic and reason for everything in our lives but then when it comes to the ultimate truth, we use faith. So the logic that God created tells us that it is illogical to believe in God.
Joey Svendsen: Love you too bro. Read “Reasons For God,” Tim Keller — NY Times best seller. Will give you more to think about. Thanks for giving me more to think about.
UNlearning Reader: Sorry about coming off pissed. I shall think about what you said as well. Thanks for the good discussion.
Joey Svendsen: No apology necessary dude. Enjoyed the discussion. This was never my original intent, but do we have your permission to post this conversation on our blog?
What do you think?
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